Good article. We all need to have good ideas on winning our private debates with Democrats.

Please do something on the new nomenclature the Liberals are using. Every 10-15 years the Democrats reinvent themselves, just going with the flow of whatever social changes are the current rage. Since "Liberal" now has been dirtied up, they speak of themselves as "Progressives", a much less judgemental sounding term. We should NOT let them get by with it. Just like roses, a liberal is a liberal is a liberal.

Excellent analysis. Thank you!! It is very helpful to understand the futility of arguing with the "radical left." I have been naive enough to believe that surely they, too, sought truth and that a logical presentation of truth would change their minds. I have been beating my head against the wall. I look forward to less knots on my noggin now!! :)

You don't need to fall into the trap of saying the Democrat Party is the party of Thomas Jefferson. As you know, he was a member of the Democratic-Republican party which is sometimes called the Anti-Federalist Party. As you also know, at the time of Jefferson there was neither a Republican party nor a Democratic party. So, don't fall into that poltical trap as the modern day Democrats want people to do.

"When it comes to debating Leftists, the outcome is ..dependent.. on superior firepower." Finally

someone who understands how to handle the Left!

Since politics begins at the barrel of a gun, the

Second Amendment insures that "We The People"

do not collectively but individually hold the gun.

While I do not agree 100% with everything this guy says here, he at least is trying to get us to rethink the proposed solutions from a different perspective. If a "Republican" is trying to pass CRAP, is it any less crap just because a "Republican" is the author of it? We need to seek to elect CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLICANS to office; else what is the difference as to who is forging the chains that seek to enslave us? REMEMBER, IT WAS THE REPUBLICANS WHO GAVE US THE PATRIOT ACT!

Larry Elder wrote an article entitled "Republican Collectivism" which was also published here at The Patriot. I suggest you read his article.

I wanted to thank you for your structured presentation. However I would comment that although honestly was not lacking - you did not explain the thought process behind becoming a liberal in the first place. I was a liberal socialist pretty much (always voted independent) until Ron Paul's run taught me the values and RESPONSIBILITY of personal Liberty.

You're also painting liberals as very evil - this tends to foment opposition only based on someone getting their feelings hurt. I appreciate candid thoughts as long as you can appreciate candid critisism :-)

On another note we've been seeing a lot of these posts on PyraBang lately - this one was posted by a member who goes by the media name "dandan" - his link is below if any of you would like to join our braintrust :-)

http://www.pyrabang.com/go/dandan

Mr. Alexander,

I could not help but notice the mirror image of your debate re: essential liberties and of explaining the gospel of Jesus Christ. Both worthy causes!!!

Dennis Lee

Terrific comment and presentation...but 'they' never do admit anything...ie...in discussing WWII, I used the analogy that Germany didnot attack us first...the liberal GB hater could not even admit that point....this will help in maintaining the focus..thank you

Thanks, Mark for your excellent essay! All too often, the Progressive will appeal to the emotion--the "feel-good," rather than the "think-good"--what's best for the majority of people. Thus, the current rush to ban firearms in the hands of citizens, and to provide "entitled" health care for everyone, citizen or not. I have a number of friends who espouse progressive-ism, forgetting that someone has to eventually pay for all the "free" care they want to provide. First Principles, individual responsibility, personal faith, and personal productivity will make this nation great again. Thanks for a great post.

I have used the Declaration's "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" as a foundation for my arguments against abortion with liberals. These are "inalienable" rights that most liberals apparently rarely consider, but will generally agree with. The Founders put Life first because without it, all other rights were obviously meaningless. I then mention that these are American rights and that the 40 million plus babies that have been aborted since 1973 were Americans that were denied that right, along with all subsequent rights. All because of "choice". The "choice" to kill one's offspring is not a right found in any historic documents and certainly not a right given by our Creator.

Thanks for the nuts & bolts clarity of what a true consevative is, and how we should best communicate with others.

If we are to remedy the problems that exist in todays world, we must start over with some basic rules. For example, The Ten Commandments, accompanied by the idea that we must hold everyone accountable for their actions (good or bad). Lets also include integrity, respect, discipline and the fact that the world owes you nothing. Should we be fortunate enough to get humankind to think and act along these lines, we just might salvage ourselves.

Why continue the debate? Every argument a conservative might bring is going to fall on deaf ears - the current brand of liberals/progressives do not understand reason, only feelings and their communist ideology with which are marching full steam ahead. It appears to be the same with many rinos in the House and Senate. Case in point, Lindsey Graham(Rino) has teamed up with Chuck Schumer(D) to speed up the amnesty bill for illegal aliens and proposed a national I.D. card. Anybody who thinks either plans are a good idea, have not lived under a communist government to see what they did to their citizens with the national ID card, how every move across city lines, state lines was tracked, how their bio information was used against them, including their medical records. Now that technology is so advanced, biometrics will make it much easier to track each and every one of us, almost like a bad SciFi movie.

Do we need government's permission to move from place to place, register with the police at all times or else go to jail, carry this ID at all times or risk being arrested for non-identity compliance?

Speeding up the amnesty ensures that 30+ million illegals will become permanent democrat voters.

What will become of American freedom? It will turn into a Soviet style, fear ridden, punishment ridden, looking over your shoulder, watch what you say even to your family totalitarian regime. You will be watched 24/7. Fight it now while we still have a chance to preserve some freedom.

I come from a long line of Mediterranean freedom fighters, reaching back dozens of generations and I know without question that Tyranny's First Principle is to make people afraid of Authority. Witness how we Americans have come to a vague, ill-defined unease because of our government. Let Obama have his way with health "care" and we will soon come to fear the IRS in all of its manifestations. Obama and his Central Planners know that the life blood of this nation is the tradition, the RIGHT, to MAKE (create) money. Under the aegis of the IRS -- a faceless, ubiquitous, omnipresent and omnipotent bureaucracy -- Obama can cause The People to become afraid of the smallest misstep. We would then become like the Colonists, knowing that the British were about to land troops somewhere in America but not knowing exactly where or when. There was no rest from the fear, imagined or real. New Yorkers absolutely refused to side with the rebelling Colonists. They were afraid of risking what they owned for the sake of Freedom from monarchial rule. The people of the 1950s Soviet Union, the Germans of the 1930s and '40s, shared the common, unspoken fear of the 3:00 A.M. pounding on the door and the shouted words: "Open this door! Authority is here!" The expected response is always acquiescence. If there is any resistance, a government wedded to economic tyranny would need to make public examples of just a few recalcitrant people. Direct the IRS to confiscate their wealth, drive the family into the street, single out their children in school as being uncooperative, threaten to audit any attorney who would defend them and make the bureaucracy so unintelligible and imponderable that resistance would be futile. You'd be surprised how quickly a deathly pall would descend across this nation. Obama has said that We, the People will "have to learn to live with less." Make no mistake. Obama knows that it's all about the money and he truly believes that he can do what he wishes with it. George III and Obama share the same opinion of the Colonial Rabble: that we exist at their behest and for their pleasure; that we have no Rights but what they deem as proper. They have plans woven into their health "care" Pogrom designed to make us afraid of not complying. That's how serious the coming vote is. That's how dangerous Obama, Reid and Pelosi are to this Republic. Make the people afraid of the government's displeasure and the rest is silence. We Americans have rescued billions of non-Americans. Who is there who could -- or would -- rescue us?

My liberal friends say that they always win an argument with me because I am thinking in terms of absolutes while they argue relative issues.

You are right on with regards to not responding to defend some Republican legislation or action. The Republicans should be the party of the left, with a truly conservative party somewhere to the right. And, is that even possible? Has not the Constitution (and God) defined, not the "middle", but the top? Any ideology/any law (and any man) falls way short of "unailiable rights" (and the divine)? Every law, every ideology, should be viewed/scored, not as left or right, but as "how far down", "how many rights taken away". Rare, indeed, would be the law that restored rights.

Mark,

Just remember that in one respect, liberals have gotten smart these days. They know that the word "liberal" has negative connotations within most intelligent social circles.

Thus the word "progressive" has been brought to the political stage by those who previously thought "liberal" was a badge of honor. Just listen to Hillary Clinton speak sometime. She loves describing herself as "progressive." Obama likes to slip it in too.

Ileana, you ask "why continue the debate", but then continue the debate, with heart and good sense!

It's only almost impossible, but we can't stop.

I was raised to be a socialist and rebelled to become a revolutionary, and now all the things that proceeded from that are shame and regrets. But I promise you I am no longer a socialist. There were people who fought for my heart mind and soul and now I fight.

I have a friend who loved Obama from the first time he saw him walk on water (wet pavement, or whatever it was). I have hammered him, teased him, implored him, reasoned with him, sent him gigs of info and written in detail my estimations of what we would see, most of it now coming true.

11/3/08

"I believe his intention is to do injury to our country."

"They will immediately use "Global Warming" to justify executive orders concerning CO2, gaining leveraged control over most of American Industry.

"They will decimate and dissipate our military, politicize it's leadership, slash its budget (as part of a glorious new "Peace Dividend"), and send what's left of it out on endless wasting "Peace-Keeping" missions.

They will engineer new and creative "National Crises" that "threaten our very existence" and require immense expansion of the federal government's power.

They will suppress free speech using the "Fairness Doctrine", just for starters, and religion using the "Separation of Church and State".

They will step hard on us and then use the gathering threat of "Rightist Terrorism", among their many justifications, for first gathering our guns and then cancelling elections that might remove them."

Ileana, this is the good news. Tony sends me links and stories that show a complete contempt for his former Obama-messiah.

We can't do much but those we can turn just a little the wind will catch and turn them all the way around.

Thank goodness you are still able to think clearly, articulate succinctly, and write truthfully, powerfully, and without reservation. I recommend you above all other sites as the most reliable, totally intune, objective review of the facts. My "20 something" kids, friends, even FB visitors have opportunity to read your excellent reporting and commentary. May your efforts continue to sow the seed of awareness, and need for personal responsibility in resisting the forces of Evil that threaten this great country we are so very blessed to live in! Thanks for all your (& staff), hard work. You are soooo appreciated!

Another great article! I'm printing this one and keeping it with my copy of Essential Liberty. I've seen many readers' comments that end with, 'but what do we do about it?', I've felt that way myself. This article is one of many from Patriot Post that answers our questions. Thank you again!

@Rifleman - I like the way you bring thoughts and events from your life together. Regarding your comment, 'Direct the IRS to confiscate their wealth, drive the family into the street, single out their children in school as being uncooperative, threaten to audit any attorney who would defend them and make the bureaucracy so unintelligible and imponderable that resistance would be futile.', I can't help but notice that some of that is already happening and the death pall has begun to spread. This administration has hastened the process, woken us up, and not a minute too soon.

This is an excellent article, although I must quibble with the word choice of "expanded" in "selective interpretation of our Constitution has expanded its meaning beyond any semblance of its original intent..." The Constitution is a set of limits on both the Federal and state governments. Far from having these limits increased, the meaning has been diluted and weakened, to the detriment of the people's liberty.

My favorite retort to one who calls himself a "progressive" is this quote from C. S. Lewis, "We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive," followed with a warning that the the road he travels ends at the edge of a bottomless chasm.

Mark, is there some way you could present the

differences between the Democratic platform vs.

the Republican one without belittling or

ridiculing things. I would like to get a copy

and print pages of it so I can circulate them

before this fall's elections. O B has to go.

Its got to be short and concise so people

will read it but with a deep meaning to all.

You can not debate a liberal. They have no clue as to the status of our country and they refuse to hear any criticism.

This has to be the most concise and clear explanation and guidance I have ever seen. Thank You and may God Bless your efforts.

God told us long ago which side we should be on:

A WISE MAN'S HEART IS AT HIS RIGHT HAND, BUT A FOOL'S HEART IS AT HIS LEFT.

ECCLESIASTES 10:2

Pretty much describes our current politicians.

Now we know where the reference to the "right " and the "left" came from!

A good discussion presupposes minds which are capable of cogent thought.

The "mind" of LIBERAL (An Acronym for Lacking In Basic Education, Research And Logic) is so thoroughly programmed that having a discussion which requires the use of logic may be a total waste of time.

When confronted with a well formed response, and they are not programmed to answer that argument, the LIBERAL default response is an ad hominem attack.

I have had some success with a question such as "Where have you ever seen that system work" or "The last time I saw that tried, it cost millions of lives and the people were enslaved".

as I previously stated: "A good discussion presupposes minds which are capable of cogent thought."

I use Patriot Posts and the it's logic all the time. It's a great resource and reminds me of my teen years sitting for hours in the Library of Congress in D.C. soaking in this time and the men that led us to freedom. I am for the repeal of the 16th amendment simply because it goes against natures law. My work and its fruits BELONG only to me. Federalist Paper 21 by Alexander Hamilton gave an excellent argument for the consumption tax. Please read so that I don't sound like such a radicle.. :) www.fairtax.org is an excellent place too, to find rebuttals to all of the misinformation out there about the Fair NST tax that has been languishing to die in committee for 8 years. . Thanks again to those here for taking the time to enjoy what I have for over 50 years.

title should include debating 'neocons' as well.

Debate them? Never!!!

Exterminate them at the ballot box!!!

Debate them? Never!!!

Exterminate them at the ballot box!!!

No compromise. No quarter.

I consider the word democrat,liberal,progressive- be it whatever label one can tag them with, to be to "conservative" for their inner most thinking with reference to their political philosophy. Maybe even the word socialist fails to adequately describe that insidious thinking and planning for a totalitarian government. The November 2010 elections are a wash for many of them. Why? Because the goal for a government take over of America is to reduce us to a standard of living much like that of a third world country and that goal supersedes a much greater vision than their re-election in November.Nancy Pelosi has already gone on the record by saying in so many words that the re-elections of many will have to be sacrificed. I'm quite certain she was excluding her on re-election from that statement.

If we do not try we will never have known, "if we could of made a difference," will you make a difference for future generations to defend the this land.

It is not a debate, this is a chance at reasoning to allow all a chance for redemption, for we were called to redemption at one time, the question is did we react to that call, some have.

we must not fall in to the trap and be branded as those of the sixties were.

God and Country

The following is copied from the introduction to First Principles:

Statement of Faith

IChThUS Imprimis — Christ First

Resolved by the Board of Directors that we, and the National Advisory Committee, Editors and Staff of The Patriot Post, willingly and of our own free will, affirm our belief in, reliance upon and commitment to the God of Christendom, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Doesn't this state that only Christians can be American Patriots? Doesn't this fly in the face of our Constitution and Bill or Rights? Isn't this religious discrimination? Isn't this un-American?

The small book Essential Liberties is outstanding. I stuck it in a travel bag and read it cover to cover three times. Wonderfully written, it is small, so easy to carry and it is packed with important information, quotes from the Founders, etc. that we all need to be very familiar with in order to facilitate key points about America's first principles when talking/debating with friends, family and political adversaries. I am well read, but this small book is one of the most inspiring and useful tools I have in my

"Second Revolution" arsenal of irrefutable facts. Thank you, Patriot Post!

This is pure fantasy, conservative strategies for "winning" an arguments against straw men "liberals" that exist only in your own minds.

The Constitution is, by it's own language, a "living" document. Otherwise there is no need for a legislature and no use for an "amendment" process...only the "unitary" executive (that idea worked out well, don't you think?).

The world changes, people grow and new information becomes available, new ideas, new science, new questions. Changing circumstances DEMAND changing views, which is precisely how this country was founded, a bunch of rabble-rousers demanding "progress" and giving the monarchy, the status quo, the slip.

Conservatives aren't the founders' living champions, they are the modern equivalent of their original enemy.