ATF's Good Intentions Gone Bad?

Since when is it a "good intention" to manufacture a weapons crisis designed to provide an excuse for disarming the general public?

There's too much power in the hands of this one megalomaniac narcissist president. (Personally I'm disgusted with anyone who would vote for a dumbocrat in this day and age! Ann Coulter is right: they're demonic.)I hope he and his ilk are fired in 2012. I respect the office, but not the man. Want to understand how a dumbocrat thinks? Take all reason and logic, as well as morality and integrity and flip it; turn it inside-out and you'll understand how a dem thinks and behaves!

Liberals have tried to take away guns for years. They will continue to do so, until an actual order is issued.

I don't think anyone with common sense wants to see what would happen then.

Hi Patriot Post,

I enjoy reading your articles. But when are Republicans and Conservatives going to take real action to stop the Liberals/ Socialists. Mao, Stalin and others murdered millions to destroy those who might become FREEDOM FIGHTERS that founded this great country. We write articles and they take action. We are not dying, but our freedoms are going away. As you said in todays article they are doing "whatever" to get our guns. The bad guys are winning and the good/nice guys are just that nice/dying guys. Charlie

I've always believed that this was a strategy to justify ratification of the UN small arms treaty. In my opinion such behavior is criminal ("high crimes") as well as a violation of BO's Oath of Office.

"I just want you to know that we are working on [gun control]. ... We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar."...Sarah Brady

Surely you misquoted Ms. Brady, or she misquoted 0, or you took her statement out of context. This "most transparent administration in history" would never do anything "under the radar", would they?

Note to the more obtuse: The above is sarcasm; I am not a troll.

In a more serious vein, when is someone going to stand up and say "NO" to one of 0's unconstitutional executive orders? Is it going to take another Concord?

People who respect the Second Amendment are getting ready for battle, in the trenches if the fight fails at the voting booth. Obama and his progressive/Marxist government had better pay attention. Look at all the guns and ammo that have been bought the last two years. What does that tell you? I guarantee the law enforcement agencies, in general, nor the military will seize citizens weapons. They have sworn to uphold the Constitution and it says nothing in there about seizing guns at the president's command. Pray it won't come to this but we will fight for our children and our freedom!!

I don't think Americans ever doubted this administrations behind the scenes intentions regarding weapons ownership and gun rights. I'm not sure we ever thought that the methodology would include fabrication of events to support their intentions such as you have outlined in the Fast and Furious article. But, how could we be surprised? I find no consolation in the fact that the stupidity has been exposed since facts seem not to matter when the will of the people is but a campaign slogan and the Constitution a document to be cast aside.

Do you think for one second that this gun scheme by the Obama Regime is for the good of the country ??? It is nothing more than a way to push more gun control on the American people and take away their Second Admentment rights. The problem for Holder and Obama is that the caper went very bad and now they are trying to cover up this debacle. This regime cannot be trusted to do anything FOR the American people only AGAINST the American people. The quicker this regime is voted out the better off we will all be !!!!!

Obama's response to the incident in Tucson has nothing to do with gun control. It's just another chance to tear down the Constitution of the United States, which is his aim in the first place. These gun control advocates ignore one very obvious and simple truth - guns, of themselves, don't kill people in this country, but rather criminals and deranged people with guns kill people. Taking away guns isn't going to stop the drive-bye shootings or home invasions, because the criminals are still going to have guns. I say, "Gee, Mr. President, outlawing guns in Chicago really set a great example for your position, didn't it?"

Seems like everything that this president and his group of thugs do hurts the American People every time.

Upon hearing about "Fast & Furious" and then the comments from ATF folks, I have always thought the the administration was at the bottom of this just to take our 2nd Amendment rights from us

Sadly, our country has been without a real President since 1/20/09. Obamass is not my president, he is an usurper who conned his way into a federal job.

Here's a tip: read "The End of the American Era" by Andrew Hacker. Then build your bunkers, equip your defensive positions and hunker down. It's going to be a long, bloody fight.

I know of no time when the intentions of the BATF were "good". Writing as one who once held a Federal Firearms Dealer's License while operating a small business, I clearly recall the sting operations, draconian fee increases and absurd regulatory demands set in place under the Clinton administration. They drove me to the point of closing my business and not renewing the license when it came due. Their plainclothes agents lurk in gunshows enticing legitimate businessmen to make straw sales. They are the jot-and-tittle enforcers of the way the ludicrous purchase permission slips must be filled out. And I've yet to meet one who supported the Second Amendment as it was written. Just another soft tyranny bureaucracy- none of which have "good intentions".

"Fast & Furious" is just one example of what the criminal minds in this administration are doing to destroy what is left of our "Republic". But there is one sure way to stop this criminal insanity. Obama to date has posted two fraudulent and bogus Certificates of Live Birth documents on the White House website and presently no congressman or senator or any other organization has had the "guts" to get this out through the airwaves to disclose the largest Constitutional Crisis this country has ever faced. This all could be brought to a screeching halt if Obama, Holder and the rest of his unaccountable administration were arrested for the crime(s) of Sedition against the United States of America. Where are the heroes in places of power that can do what needs to be done? Where is the will to strike a blow to set the eradication of these criminals from our midst? Please, somebody that has clout, start the process of eliminating this festering national sore, which would, if done correctly, reverse everything Obama has done to include Obamacare, two Supreme Court Justices that have no regard for our Constitution, unions that are an arm of the Democratic Party that operate with communist manifestoes as their operating philosophies. Another day of control by this administration is a day too long.

Brilliant essay. On paper it is was excellent plan, in theory it never worked. We tried it in Vietnam with the same results. to follow weapons is not as easy as it is to follow a paper trail.

I disagree it is a plan to take away our weapons. It was a rotten plan fraught with failure. I am a sportsman and I love the side arm range. what I don't agree is those who seem to think a 9mm needs a thirty shot clip or I can run across the boarder to either Az, Tx, NM, and buy conversion kicks for semi autos. As a sportsman I don't need a full auto nor do I need a 30 shot clip to protect my family. I am reminded of the police in LA, being outgunned by bank robbers and the police paid the price in blood. Is this an extreme example? Yes. But if this country slide any farther into he abyss it might be the norm and everything Jiggs said will come to fruition.

Current laws don't protect us as the Az shooting has shown. Still to have military fire power or stupid decisions as the essay has pointed out isn't the way either.

Still if you take away our weapons we will be pre WW2 Nazi Germany or Stalin's Soviet Union.

We must temper our rights, to protect our family/yourself, with a little common sense.

I believe my favorite founding father said it best, "The beauty of the second amendment is, that it will not be needed until they try to take it away."~~Thomas Jefferson.

And of course, "I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"~~Patrick Henry 23 March, 1775

I am a devout member of the NRA. Together we can defend our second amendment, God given rights.

The issue, simply put, is not whether a sportsman needs a high cap mag, or an automatic weapon. The 2A is not about hunting, target shooting, or the like. It enumerates a right to keep and bear arms. Rights are not granted by the government, they are inherent due to our humanity. It is up to the government to recognize those rights and not to interfere with them. It is moronic to say that one does not need this or that rifle or a "30 shot clip" (I am not sure what a 30 shot clip is, but I suspect it resembles a 30 round magazine). We need whatever we think we need to defend against an invader intent on hurting our family, or a tyrant intent in taking away our rights. Rather than the elusive "common sense" so frequently called for by the anti-gunners, we needs citizens that are well informed, with good hearts, high morals, and the knowledge of history that can recognize clearly when an evil government is intent on taking away our rights in the name of "common sense". I suspect that an earlier writer is really an anti-gun troll. Look out for those who say, like obama, "I support the Second Amendment but.....". There are not "but's" There is only a recognition of our rights and our responsibilities given those rights.

I agree with all the responses however it is "We The People" who are responsible for putting the Obamas and Clintons etc in office. The people know what to expect everytime they elect a liberal, ie Democrat but they elect them anyway. Go figure.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.WHY DO WE HAVE TO HAVE GUN CONTROL, WHEN A CIIIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES CAN'T PROTECT HIS FAMILY AND HIS PROPERTY FROM PEOPLE THAT WOULD TAKE EVERYTHING HE OWNS AWAY FROM HIM.THIS IS NOT THE AMERICAN WAY.

It is well past time that the criminal organization that is this "most transparent administration" be called and held to account for their illegal and unconstitutional actions. Any and every one responsible for or with knowledge of Operation Fast and Furious who had authority to stop it or speak up about it and didn''t, needs to be charged with violations of the federal firearms laws sentenced to the maximum and fined the maximum.

@ RK Sprau: What is the practical difference between a 30 round MAGAZINE (the correct word), and two 15 round magazines or three 10 round magazines? There IS NO practical difference. With all due respect, your proposal focuses the problem on an inanimate object, and it still does not address the heart of the madman that shot John Roll and Gabrielle Giffords. That is a distraction.

The magazines are not the issue, and, again with all due respect, since when, as an American citizen, are you given the right to determine what another American citizen NEEDS or doesn't need? That is THEIR decision, not yours—particularly when it comes to giving full expression to a constitutionally guaranteed right. If you can justify banning my 30 round magazines on the basis of "need," than I can easily justify banning any vehicle of yours that exceeds 40 miles an hour on the basis of "need." I can justify banning all of your books except the Bible, 'cause that's all you "need." I can justify putting a limit on your speech, because you don't really need to know how to say more than "yes, comrade commissar," and "no, comrade commissar, I'm sorry."

Do NOT get sidetracked into nonsense about restricting magazine capacity. It has nothing to do with the core issue of the human heart, and all it does is play into the hands of gun grabbers. Giving them any more ammunition and comfort than they can grab for themselves is a singularly bad idea.

First who's "common sence". As I understand the 2nd Amendment, it places no restrictions on the type or capacity of rnds, my weapon is limited to. I hunt also and don't know of anybody who hunts full auto etc. We hunt for food not a mess of lead in what is left. It is fun to shoot FA, at the right time and range.

Second, why does the forrest dept. have a para-military unit, The land belongs to the people. Who and why are these para-military units being formed, and how many other are there in this socialist govt.

Under the radar is an understatement. Clinton and Obama have no place to even try to have a treaty that affects our NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY and CONSTITUTIONAL rights and freedom.

We as Americans need to get out of the water before we are cooked, as happened to the frog in a pot.

I got an email awhile back in referance to the purchase of (9,000,000 rnds or 9 million $) for 5.56x45 62 grain penitrators by the fbi.

Thereare 3 ways to go for us, and that is the 3 B's, SOAP BOX, BALLOT BOX, or BULLET BOX., I hope the last is not how our direction goes, so Speak Out and UP,research and VOTE

It's amazing how "wise" our founding fathers were when creating and setting into a motion one of the most successful forms of government ever, one established and sanctioned by God Almighty (even the part about "guns"~~oh my~). How unfortunate for the USA that we now have a community organizer instead of a real leader, a real president. He and all his socialist buds must certainly be as "giddy" since they think they have the'gun control' problem in the bag. Ahhhh, that's the problem with being so out of touch with the common, every day guy.......they aren't even in the ball park! Thanks to the Patriot Post and other wonderful watchmen, the rest of us can stay on top of what is afoot in Washington. Keep up the good work, Mark.

Dear Howie Brown and Chris Smith - I just read your heartfelt letters - made me get all teary-eyed and sloppy. We need more people like you who can give such good arguments. It's a gift to be able to express yourself such as you did. We must protect our Country!

Re: "Guns Gone Wild"

If what you wrote about these clandestine DoJ actions is true, then Obama, Holder and several other high-level adminstration officials need to be impeached now (even if that means Biden gets to be President until Inauguration Day 2014)!

"A well regulated militia, being 'necessary' to the security of a free state, the 'right' of the {people} to keep and bear arms, [shall not] be infringed."

Pretty clear to me. The people = the militia. Not the National Guard, Not the Reserves, nor Active duty, but the people.

If as some attempt to skew, the founder's original intention of the 2nd amendment rights, saying it was meant for the "Militia," it is not correct.

They would have known that a militia, under the control and direction of a centralized government, state or federal, would defeat the purpose of "the right of the People to keep and bear arms" and "for the security of a free state."

It doesn't say, or add, that if a deranged person decides to shot another, that this right should be withdrawn from all the "people." There will always be nuts, but they must be dealt with according to the law.

Why do you think that Obama paid our tax money to bring Hamas to the USA? This is his citizen police force to confisicate our weapons. Hitler did this and Obama is trying to do this. There are about 11 million Muslims in our country, they will be the ones that enforce Sharia Law for Muslim Obama. Plus

the Black Panthers will also back him up as long as

they have guns and we don't. If they try to gun control us, then this is when the revolution begins.

Phil the Pill!

R K Sprau wrote, "Current laws don't protect us as the Az shooting has shown." As a theologian, you ought to know that "You shall not steal" will not keep a kleptomaniac from stealing, and "You shall not murder" will not keep an insane murderer from killing. The Law will not make us good and righteous, either before God or man. A law establishes the norm and the penalty for transgressing it; it only stops the lawful and shows us where we go wrong. Adding more laws or increasing their stringency will not stop a person who cares nothing for obedience.

Law can only keep the lawless from crime through fear. It takes the Gospel of Jesus Christ to create the love necessary to obey the law cheerfully and willingly. As our nation's founders noted frequently, a nation of Christians does not need an abundance of laws and regulations to prosper in peace.

Whether the Obama administration and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder believed this could be done by executive the possibility was cut off at the pass today in Congress.

A Republican backed amendment to the 2012 Commerce, Justice and Science appropriations bill was offered by Montana Congressman Denny Rehberg. The amendment prohibited the use of Justice Department funding to enforce this new mandate. The amendment passed 25-16.

There does appear to be some fundamental dishonesty by the administration on this debacle. It is particularly disturbing that Attorney General Holder ordered the head of BATFE to NOT testify to Congress regarding F&F. This reeks of cover-up - and it's far worse than Watergate since it involves people getting killed as part of the secret. So, "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"

@ RK Sprau: rights are rights, and they don't need to be tempered. You either have them, or you don't.

As for gun control, please show us when/where did that work? It is simple: we don't need ATF, and if I want to purchase a tank, I should be able to. If I try to use it to kill you, then I should be punished accordingly.

I have been reading your posts for a while now, and you seem a little confused. Maybe it stems from your proclaiming yourself a middle of the road person. Some issues are not middle of the road issues. As with liberty: you can't have a litte or too much. You are either free, or you are not.

Being clandestine and sneaking behind closed door is all Obama knows.It comes naturally to him because he also realizes coming in "under the radar," is how he got elected. C'mon America wake the hell up.

One way for the States to stop this madness is to require every federal official with so called police powers to report to the local sheriff. Failure to report is punished by a $100,000 fine that the govt can not pay and a minimum of a year and a day in jail. This would have prevented Ruby Ridge and Waco. BTW, when is Herr Reno getting out of jail for Waco? What she never went to jail!

How come no one is talking about the tracking devices that were used in this operation. How difficult to put that in weapons and ammo sold and used in the US? Just another way they can tell who has what and where it is.

There is nothing good about the intent of these agencies to transport legal weapons over the border and then try to blame legal American gun brokers for their act to subvert the law....if this is proves to have come from the highest office then it is a act of treason, we already know it was a act of murder. The fraud in the Oval Office already should have been removed.

I don't care much about the "good intentions" of an agency that shouldn't even exist. Good essay otherwise, though.

Mark I posed this same scenario at work the other day. These people are trators that we have in Washington,

BATF= Bureau to Assist Terrorists with Firearms

This is the same government vigilante group the Executive Branch used to slaughter the Branch Dividians. It should be called the Execution Branch of government!

In 18th century meaning, Militia was all able bodied men of ages (about) 16-70, those men who had reached physical maturity (16) thru the -Biblically stated- life expectancy. Militia meant each of these men had a moral duty to defend the society. The 2nd Amendment reads,"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". Amendments 1 > 10, The Bill of Rights were written and ratified after the US Constitution was in effect, & were proposed and submitted to the several States in response to the People's fear that without a written summary of the more important Rights of a free people the new federal government could encroach or usurp those rights and implement despotic tyranny. The Amendments were not formulated in a vacuum. Whereas, the 2nd, refers back to the original text (as do all others, and as stated in Article V referring to the any ratified amendments, quote; "shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution...") ArticleI ,Sec8, "the enumerated powers- Specifically paragraphs 15 & 16: "To provide for the calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" & "To provide for organinizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" Ergo all men who have come of mature age are the Militia, & as such by the 2nd Amendment have the Right to Keep & Bear Arms, & further if the person cannot afford to purchase an Arm & is willing to accept and be subject to -the organization, training, and discipline of the US armed forces, A full individual military kit will be issued to that person, including military grade firearms [rifle & pistol] for their ownership & permanent use.

I also, refer you to Amendment VI, ..."and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence." A weapon, an Arm- kept and born- is the ultimate Counsel for the defence.

Excellent - beautifully stated. The people of the U.S. have unwittingly elected an enemy of the United States of America to be its president. His goal is to destroy our country and his actions prove that fact. Once one understands and accepts the basic truth about president Obama, the rest of his actions fall logically into order.

"Guns, Freedom, and Terrorists",by Wayne LaPierre. What happened in Britain, Australia, is happening here. Now!An excellent read,and a real wake up call!

There is nothing transparent about this man, or his administration. There is an ugly word that best describes him, and most of his minions. That word is Traitor, and his acts are Treason! He should be removed forthwith. Not impeached, removed. Tried for high crimes against the Republic. Excellent posts today. Except for Sprau, again. RVN vet? Use the term clip when proper description is magazine, and the Navy I was in would get you immediate attention!

IS THERE GOING TO BE ANY FUTURE AS FAR AS RETIREMENT FOR THE BABY BOOMERS, AND WHY IS OBAMA MESSING WITH US RETIREES. NO COLA FOR 2 YEARS IN A ROW AND PROBABLY NO COLA NEXT YEAR. HE HAS DEFINITELY GOT TO GO.

Excellent essay Mark. It is crystal clear that BHO and Eric Holder gave the order to the BATF to force border state gun dealers to sell weapons to enemies of the Unites States. For this they should be tried and sentenced, period. This criminal scheme is one of many committed by BHO in the short time he has been acting as POTUS. Unfortunately even this obscene act has not caused an uprising to remove this enemy of the state from office. What is even more disappointing is the lack of action by our military. They sit by while their commander in chief disregards his oath to the constitution.

The shinning example of what to do happened on June 28, 2009 when the Honduran military arrested and physically removed President Manuel Zelaya from office because he broke his oath to the Honduran constitution by trying to eliminate term limits. BHO and the administration condemned the Hoduran military for honoring their oath and taking the correct action. This event should have sparked the US military to take the same action. Unfortunately this did not happen and I am afraid it never will. If by some miracle our military did take similar action millions of citizens would rejoice and support their effort to save our country.

The Second Amendment is very specific. What part of infringement don't you understand? When the first infringement occured was the time to take up arms. How many people have been jailed for standing up for their rights and you did nothing but talk. Talk is less than cheap. The pen is nothing unless you're writing to idiots. You only have those rights you're willing to defend. I know of a couple of guys who were unlawfully imprisoned, even under the unconstitutional law. When the BATF talked tough the vaunted "Patriot Movement" melted away. They've already won. Maybe they won't get your gun, but they'll get your grandson's by infringement over the years. My grandfather never thought today would happen. And you think talking will stop tomorrow. Good luck.

So, gun control is the issue behind the curtain while Congress debates the debt issue. I had afeeling something was going on in secret.

Special thanks to Cris Smith.

Re: Editor reply. I carried a standard magazine in my side arm, (7 shot mag one in the tube, four mags loaded, APC)(combat loaded) (If memory serves,) not 30 a round clip.

When I said we tried it in Vietnam, I meant this boondoggle ATF screw up. We: (BLACK OPS, SOG) by we, I mean our military/government was implicated in it. Like Oboma, they allowed weapons to go on the black market so they could be followed to their source and shut them down. It was an unmitigated disaster. We gave weapons and ammunition to dubious sources for equally dubious Intel. All of this is fodder for the historians. I don't know how old you are but you are extremely knowledgeable. If you are of that era, then you know this is how the game was played.

Last year I went to El Paso. At a gun show I could pick up conversion kits to make any AR15 fully automatic, any AK 47. or variant there of.All you need to do is ask, Do any of you honestly need a fully automatic weapon? I've seen in L.A. (via television) how the police were outgunned by fully automatic military grade weapons.

I will defend my family, I am a sportsman. Most dealers are honest, some aren't. This is a catch 22 situation.

I prefer clip over magazine. It's my choice of word usage. I can say M40A1 7.62.51mm NATO 118 match 14.5 pounds 5 round magazine, maximum effective range 1,000 meters muz vec 2,547 fps, paired with Unertl 10X sometimes with a Redfield Primary used by the Marines, also used by LRRP, SOG, certain Ranger Units. Would most civilians know what on earth I'm talking about? Hence I chose clip (civilian term, over magazine, military term.)

To make a point of a descriptive word usage 40 years after the fact isn't relevant. I wasn't posting to other Vets. When I say "thumper," how many people know what weapon I am referring to or how many variants? How about Boony rap, M55 vest. mad minute, blue tabs, FNG,Gunkies, M21, box with metal handles, Black Rose, AAR, sit rep, fast mover,FIGMO, daily daily, AO, Kit Carson, Turtles, wake up, SOI, RPD, REMF, FUBAR, Redbird, boonierat... I hope this explains why I chose the word I did.

MNIce I concur 100% with you, especially the second post.

Cris Smith made me think with this quote and I fored to agree with him. "Do NOT get sidetracked into nonsense about restricting magazine capacity. It has nothing to do with the core issue of the human heart, and all it does is play into the hands of gun grabbers. Giving them any more ammunition and comfort than they can grab for themselves is a singularly bad idea."

Until he said it, I've never considered the full impart or the danger of over regulation. I can readily see how some well meaning people can destroy our basic freedoms. I will seriously rethink this but I want you to rethink why does a civilian need Armor piercing rounds or cop killer rounds? Either of which will shred a vest a police officer wears.

Protect your families but who protects those who protect us? This is what I had in mind.

I do own a fire arms and no one is going to take them from me.

I am not confused when it comes to military grade weapons, yet I do concede the point of over legislation.

I also concur with MNIce 2nd post.

To answer RK Sprau's question, the reason that a citizen may need armour piercing rounds (or standard capacity magazines, or automatic weapons for that matter) lies clearly in the true intent of the Second Amendment (as stated in the Federalist Papers and other contemporary writings of influential Founders): though we pray it's not true, the greatest enemy of the Republic, and thus of our Liberty, may be the guys in the body armour with full military gear paid for by the tax payers.

The petty criminals present a random threat to our lives and property, but a tyrannical state represents a uniform threat to everything we are.

I am reminded of a popular cartoon of the "assualt weapons" ban era, in which a buffoonish Redcoat is reaching for the musket held by a Minuteman while saying, "What possible use could a mere farmer have for a military-style assualt rifle?" I'm still not sure what being a "sportsman" has to do with this issue.

I appreciate Mr. Sprau's willingness to reflect on the logic involved in his position. One of my favorite quotes is often attributed to Patrick Henry (I'm not sure of the true attribution): "An honest man who is mistaken, when confronted by the truth, either ceases to be mistaken or ceases to be honest." We should all constantly seek to focus our beliefs with truth. All to often, people merely believe what they want to believe, rather than investing the time and effort to seek the truth!

Best Wishes

Molon Labe

Good intentions?

The intentions were Treasonous and the perpetrators are in fact, traitors.

I would personally like to witness their hangings and would buy the rope for the job, out of my own pocket.

But we don't hang traitor anymore, or even report their treasonous acts as such.

They just had good intentions....

I do wish these hard core Republicans would just fade away. Their reinforcing one another with ideas strongly approaching paranoia seem to do little to solve any of the complex problems any government faces today. It seems to be the old idea of only reading and listening to people who agree with you no unrealistic your ideas are. I too am guilty of this as after a few paragraphs I found myself not really reading carefully what people have written here. Maybe the availability of so much information is the problem as it allows all kinds of people to get new ideas of which acted upon could cause serious problems for others. As I am very liberal in my beliefs I still will never give up the right to own guns and I don't really think we need to ever worry about that happening in the U.S. The people just aren't that dumb and those who think they are are doing a disservice to all of us. Try relaxing a little and smell the roses.

Mark that was a great opine. I have followed as best I could this story and I cannot fathom why their hasn't been a call from the Congress about an investigation into this problem. Should at the very least, AG Holder, be held for trial? I too thought of Col. North's story.

The intent of the actions sponsored by the entire executive branch was to create a condition that could be used as an excuse for more draconian gun controls for the law-abiding.

My 30 years experience in the political realm tells me that there were never any "good" intentions.

Mark, I hope you don't really believe the title you placed on this article!

@Mark Alexander: Great essay, although the title gives the ATF much too much credit. I don't think the ATF had good intentions that went bad; I think the ATF had bad intentions that went even worse.

@RK Sprau: There is a reason that the first 10 Amendments (which includes our right to keep and bear arms) are called the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Needs. If I want to exercise my right to own a 15-round magazine or a 30-round magazine, then it doesn't really matter whether or not anybody thinks I "NEED" to have a high-capacity magazine.

Mark: excellent! Sprau: Thanks for your service! THUMPER = BLOOPER = elephant gun = M-79 40mm single shot grenade launcher. Government should neither have a monopoly on effective weapons, nor the ability to define my "need". Gun Medic: OOORAH! All: "abusus non tollit usum" Abuse is NOT an argument against use. Finally, as has been shown time and again by Waco, RR, and other events, "an oath to defend" means nothing to men without conscience or honor. Make no mistake, there are LEOs and soldiers willing fire on sovereign citizens. It happens far too often, and will only get worse as more lose their moral compass.

Holder knew about Gunrunner in 2009

Attorney General Eric Holder at the Mexico/United States Arms Trafficking Conference

CUERNAVACA, MEXICO ~ Thursday, April 2, 2009

Remarks as prepared for delivery.

First, let me express my thanks to Attorney General Medina Mora and Secretary of Government Gomez Mont for making this conference possible.

This is my first trip to another country as Attorney General. I wanted to come to Mexico to deliver a single message: We stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you in this fight against the narcotics cartels. The United States shares responsibility for this problem and we will take responsibility by joining our Mexican counterparts in every step of this fight.

And, together, we will win – thanks in large part to the courage of my Mexican colleagues here today, who are on the front lines every day, and with whom I am proud to collaborate.

The topic that has been addressed over the past two days could not be more important – the development of an arms trafficking prosecution and enforcement strategy on both sides of the border.

I would like to thank the Mexican and U.S. experts who have worked so hard on this issue. On our side, Secretary Napolitano and I are committed to putting the resources in place to increase our attack on arms trafficking into Mexico.

Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.

But as today’s conference has emphasized, the problem of arms trafficking will not be stopped at the border alone. Rather, as our experts emphasized, this is a problem that must be met as part of a comprehensive attack against the cartels – an attack in depth, on both sides of the border, that focuses on the leadership and assets of the cartel. This is the type of full-bore, prosecution-driven approach that the U.S. Department of Justice took to dismantle La Cosa Nostra – once the most powerful organized crime group operating in the United States.

With partners like those we have here today, I am confident that together, we will defeat these narcotics cartels in exactly the same way. I am proud to stand with you, and to join you in this fight. Thank you again for inviting me here.

http://www.justice.gov/ag/speeches/2009/ag-speech-090402.html

Why doesn't the Secret Service arrest this guy, I mean they're in the room with this guy every day. Didn't they take an oath to defend the Constitution, or do they think guarding the POTUS even when he commits Traitorous acts as a daily routine is defending the XConstitution. They did not take an Oath of personal fealty to the POTUS!

I told someone when I first heard about the guns sold to the Mexicans that I bet it was a scheme to try to justify more gun control,specifically assault rifles.

osambama, clinton, and all hitler wannabes just need a tar and feather party thrown specifically for them. Feds, get the hell out of our lives and read the Constitution, you know, that sacred oath you took to uphold! Lying, crooked, thieving, self serving sobs.

Look not at what the usurper says but to the opposite of what he says. That is what you will see he says one thing but does the opposite. He is a liar extraordinare. Today he says we need to bring the debt under control. What he really means is if he has another fix of 2 trillion dollars he will quit spending. Just like any other addict it will always be just one more fix and it never ends.

The control (Removal from citizens) of Arms as stated in the US Constitution (2nd amendment) is one way that Mr. Obama can guarantee safety for his private army. When citizens start fireing back -protecting themselves - his private army might not wish to die. We can then hold on to America a little longer.

Mark-- a horribly worded Headline here.

"---ATF's Good Intentions Gone Bad"

The ATF thought something good could come out of their shenanigans? Only if they are cahoots with the drug runners, cartels, or the corrupt Mexican military, cops, and politicians. If an American firearms dealer tried this crap he'd be buried so deep he would never again see the light of day. Worse, if he were a gun dealer his behind would have been paraded through the lamestream media by Oblahblah and crowd before he was sent to our type of Siberia. NOPE-- never were there any "good" intentions on the part of ATF and, one of their own confirmed this.

You know i am in complet agreement with most all stated and really atuned to it-I was part of the Viet Nam clam babe for WHATEVER reason we were there and WE Keep letting our PUBLIC SERVENTS PUT us in these problems that we have no need to be in and as Charleston Heston (NRA) SAID (TAKE MY WEAPON FROM MY DEAD COLD HANDS)..But we never seem to stop any of our elected from doing what they want and even when we elect new ones they seem to fall right in---REALLY a shame we can not TAKE ALL OUT AND PUT All--all new ones in TO MAYBE STRIGHTEN thing out..

Without the 2nd Amendment, the others have no meaning.

The Headline is the moldering dead cat.

ATF has NEVER had good intentions, period.

Undercutting the US Constitution, Bill of Rights and

the freedom of citizens' access to the means of redress are not 'Good intentions gone bad'.

Media rats know that most people scan the page and rarely read the entire article. Some will drop to the closing paragraph . . . maybe, and their whole sense of the topic is derived from that initial, cursory glance.

So, having a headline that suggests the 'Good Ol' Boys' at ATF toys for tots program failed is just stupid, or worse. These are the Waco killers you're talking about. 86 old ladies and children, remember?

One might as well suggest the SS, those mischievous boys,had 'good intentions but just went astray'.

The article did do a fair job of describing the offenses by ATF, but should follow up on the whole scope of the story, Tampa, FBI, DEA, the whole apple.

The modern Democratic Party is the party of treason.

Since when has 'common sense' been in either Obama's or Holder's lexicon. They don't know what 'common sense' means.

High Crimes and Misdemenors, isn't enableing the MURDER of at least 2 American Citizens, as well as how many Mexican Citizens in some way, accessory to murder?

The Virginia Ratifying Convention 6-16-1788 clearly establishes that the federal government:

1.) CAN "NOT" Govern "POLICE" outside the 10 miles square of Washington DC or for purposes other than personal protection;

2.) CAN "NOT" Create "ANY" REGULATION that eve "MAY" affect the citizens of the "UNION AT LARGE";

Mr. GEORGE MASON "...then observed that he would willingly give them exclusive power, as far as respected the POLICE and good government of the >>>"PLACE"; but he would give them "NO MORE", because he thought it unnecessary...."

Mr. PENDLETON. Mr. Chairman, this clause does "NOT" give Congress power to impede the operation of ANY PART of the Constitution, (N)or to make "ANY REGULATION" that may affect the interests of the citizens of the "UNION AT LARGE". But it gives them power over the "LOCAL POLICE" of the >>>"PLACE", ... this is the "fair CONSTRUCTION of the CLAUSE". It gives them power of exclusive legislation in any case within THAT district.

What is the meaning of this? What is it opposed to? Is it opposed to the "general powers of the federal legislature", or to those of the state legislatures? I understand it as opposed to the legislative power of "that state" where it shall "BE".

What, then, is the power? It is, that Congress shall exclusively legislate "THERE", in order to preserve {440} serve the POLICE of the >>>"PLACE" and their "OWN" personal independence (APP: NOT those of the STATES), that they may not be overawed or insulted, and of course to preserve them in opposition to any attempt by the state where it shall "BE" this is the "fair CONSTRUCTION". ..."

Read Day Convention in Full: http://www.pacificwestcom.com/americanpatriotpartynewsletter

RK Sprau- It's one in the chamber, not "tube." Are you using that term for us dumb civilians as well?

Bob, I like your phrase...obama Regime. You hit the nail on the head. We don't have an administration that works for the people. We live under a Regime who expects us work for IT. Beware the speeches, they say one thing that some might like to hear, but in reality, in their twisted mind and behind closed doors, they do an other. We deserve better. I hope that people do the right thing in 2012 and may GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Holder has facilitated the 2 largest straw purchases in the history of this country and should be charged accordingly!

Ameican Patiots and Freedom Fighters,

As we all are concerned about our second amendment rights, we need to overwhelm our senators and congress people to IMPEACH and HOLD ACOUNTABLE those that are ging against our CONSTITUTION.

Everything we stand for as an AMERICAN COUNTRY must be kept in check and made sure that those in Washington understand that they were put there to help and PRotect US against FOREIGN INVASION and TREACHERY, TEIRENY, ESPIONAGE, THREAT of TERRORISM.

Obviously they CAN'T HANDLE it, so it's time for the AMERICAN PEOPLE (those that were actually born here and stayed true to the AMERICAN way of LIFE) to MOBILIZE and take CONTROL of there Government and tell them the "BUCK REALLY DOES STOP HERE".

Tell to them to SENSOR and START the IMPEACHMENT PROCESS to REMOVE Obama and his COMMUNIST regime.

Enough is Enough America. OVERWHELM the switch board and office phones of your senators and congressional members. LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD.

They will KILL OFF every AMERICAN FAMILY just so we can become a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY and be at POVERTY LEVEL, so those that have the money you will become just a toy and an experimental monkey.

I stand second to no one in appreciation of both the Second Amendment and the great work that Mark Alexander and co. are doing for the country. But...enough of the self-congratulatory posted comments about Mark's latest missive, and while at it, let others call the Patriot Post "highly acclaimed". The quality and importance of the PP speaks for itself.

My Great,Great Grandpa, Buffalo Bill has just rolled over in his grave.

I am keeping the Second Amendment alive for Grandpa Cody and my family.

The Second Amendment is the only gun law I respect, ever.

PS- Great essay. I am forwarding it to all my friends and foes.

Does anyone really think that Holder did not know about Gunrunner when there were this many millions of dollars line itemed for it??

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, 111th Congress, H.R.1 (Stimulus Bill)

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1/text?version=enr&nid=t0:enr:232t

Office of Justice Programs, 3rd paragraph.

For an additional amount for ‘State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance’, $90,000,000, to remain available until September 30, 20140,000,000, for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the Southern border and in High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the Southern border, of which $10,000,000 shall be transferred to ‘Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Salaries and Expenses’ for the ATF Project Gunrunner.

&

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h1enr.pdf

(page 16)

How Much Money Did Operation Gunrunner get:

A November 2010 report says it got $10 Million in February 2009 Recovery Act Supplemental Appropriations Act,

June 2009 another Six Million Dollars.

Emergency Border Security Supplemental Appropriations Bill of 2010 allocated $37.5 million to ATF for Project Gunrunner,in August 2010, as Reported in this DOJ Document: http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e1101.pdf Scroll down to page 110 of the report at the link above to read for yourself

Another 20 Million Dollars in the Stimulus package, plus an additional 10 Million Dollars that was due for this operation in the fiscal 2011 Budget thats never been voted on

Why do you use Obama's middle name as if a common name of good meaning is something bad ?

Gun control laws are a good thing but like any thing that the goverment does they run a good idea into the ground.

not everyone in this country, is out to over throw the goverment and when you gave to much power to law inforcement then you have, what happen at waco texas in 1993,or rubey ridges.

and it is a sad fact that if someone want to use a gun for a crime they can get one,it would be a criminal dream to have the goverment, pass laws to take away the right of it citizens bear arms.