Considering that the Anglican Church stole much of the Catholic Church's properties during the Reformation, they have no leg to stand on if they try to sue parishes that take up the pope's offer and return to Mother Church.

Mr. Murchison notes, quite correctly, that we pagans are indifferent to the goings-on of Christian leadership, but then goes on to infer from that that we must have some pressing agenda to overthrow Christianity. Both can't be true. For my part, its the former. Go be as Christian as you want to be. Be so Christian you make the Apostles seem like slacker liberals. Just don't try to force me along for the ride.

This story is so true. I did a call in radio show on this where I asked people to call in and provide proof and evidence of their belief system. The Christians actually had more proof and evidence than wiccans pagans atheists combined. You can also hear it at W W W .SHOCKAWENOW. N E T

My interest in Mr. Murchison's words are small, since it is apparent he knows so little, but he seems to say that Wicca has no system of ethics. In this he is quite wrong. Pagans differ in their beliefs as do different Christian denominations, but a common minimum saying is "An it harm none, do as you will". Notice that BOTH parts are required. Do no harm.

There are at least two excellent books on pagan ethics: (1) Positive Magic, by Marion Weinstein, and (2) When, Why, ...If by Robin Wood.

"...if we're really open and accepting of everything, nothing binds, nothing restrains and anything goes."

Wow... that almost sounds like... FREEDOM. You know, what our Constitution was supposed to guarantee. Freedom of speech (and by implication, thought). Freedom of religion... or freedom from religion. And the right to pursue happiness.

You make the mistake of so many Christians before you... you assume that there is only one truth, and that your way just happens to be "it".

Perhaps, instead, there are many truths... as many as there are souls. Perhaps it is for each soul to find its own way to truth... not through the rules of some ancient book of Jewish mythology but through living their lives in a conscious manner, experiencing all that is there to be experienced, and learning as they grow, whether that be in a single lifetime or - as most pagans believe - over the course of many.

"If Truth really is True, instead of merely relative to various perceptions, a strong coterie of believers is going to declare as much and insist Truth be maintained..."

Or, to look at this another way... the misguided majority in America is going to choke the life out of anything that doesn't look and sound just like them.

How "Constitutional" is that?

This sounds more like liberal drivel/propoganda than an article in a conservative publication. What a totally arrogant -- and somewhat incoherent -- editorial! So much for the normal conservative respect for our nation's foundation in religious principles! What is your problem, Mr. Murchison?

Let's face it, this is all about solidifying reactionary, anti-gay, anti-modernist forces in one bloc. It always amused me how the Bush Jr. administration consistently lined up with Iran and other Islamic theocratic regimes against women's rights, children's rights etc. at international conferences. Conservatives are increasingly willing to paper over the vast theological differences between them in order to prevent a united front to hold back the tide. They will be no more successful than Canute was.

I have a big problem with the language used in this article against the Pagan community. Yes, our community is growing, we are one of-if not the-fastest growing religious movement(s) In North America. But we do NOT proselytize. Nor are we hopeful to liberate anyone from their chosen faith. If they are unhappy with their chosen faith and choose to join us instead, we welcome with open arms, but you will find the greater Pagan/Neo-Pagan community does not even indoctrinate their children with their own beliefs.

Most Pagans strongly adhere to the notion that belief is non-volitional and therefore should be practiced as one chooses.

As a former Episcopalian, I can tell you that of all the Christian churches, I find the most respect for Episcopalians. My former church is in the small town where I grew up, the many times I have met church goers on the street, they have wished me well and never said an ill word to me about my new found faith.

Your characterization of Wicca is horribly inacurate. It is NOT a "if it feels good, do it," religion. The Wiccan Rede is commonly misunderstood. The Rede states "An it harm none, do what thou will." This is harder to live by than one thinks, which removes the believer from many things that make them "feel good," and replaces them which a sense of duty to humankind and the environment. Some people think it feels good to hurt others, as harm is looked down upon within the culture and warned against within our cosmology, we avoid it at all costs. At the same time, they do not put priority on actions that harm none. For example, they find polluting the environment and destroying natural habitats much more offensive than premarital sex.

I think this article exacerbates a problem that ought not to be trifled with. That is, if people feel that they are "losing" something as you imply, that they will fight to get it back. That could lead to violence, hatred, discrimiination, etc.

I've seen discrimination of all kinds in this country, the least of which from my own community. The most of which from Christians who were hopeful of liberating me from the Goddess by threats, hate speech and violence.

To say that one religion is truth, is to say that your opinion is the only one that matters, unfortionatly in a democratic republic such as the United States, such a thing is not true. To quote a document conservatives all but worshop;

Amendment 1 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to potition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The reason this Amendment applies is because first and foremost nothing says the federal government supports one religious view over another like slapping its texts all over its tax payer funded buildings. It prohibits the free exercise of my religion because it would be shot down should I make a movement to have the wiccan reid put on a plaque in a public or federal office forum. The people who are upset that the christian right is so predominately displayed have every right to assemble, voice their opinions, and publicly demand that such intrussions be adressed in a public forum, and should such forum agree then by all means the display of a giant cross on a court lawn, or a nativity scene which is biast to one particular religious view, or a slab displaying the 10 comandments should indeed be removed to show that the government is religiously fair.

Let me address something for all Christian Conservatives: What would you do with us?

Many neo-pagans have hard fast faith in their deities. Many of them are tolerant of other religions.Before you go in to your Christian Victim Complex and state how your right to prayer is being stripped way, Remember you are the largest religion in the US, Also many Pagans, Hindu, have no right to pray at all. So let me ask again: what would you do with us once you got in to power?

Would you take away are rights to worship?

Would you do a mass camping to invade are homes and put crosses up?

Would you not let kids go to school because mommy and daddy pray to "evil gods"

I have thought of the horrors that could happen if ANY faith took hold.

We do not preach and when we do its protect are rights to worship as we wish.

Have a nice day

This was sad to see that so much misinformation and discrimination is shown, yet if I'm not mistaken, the church preaches that Jesus said to love thy enemy, to "kill them with kindness". Shoving and cramming your religion down another persons throat because they believe differently than you is wrong. To make something clear here, Pagan do not do this at all. Most pagans are quiet, and keep to themselves about their religion, and surely don't go door to door telling people to convert or they are damned to hell. Most is not all pagans believe that everyone has a different path and that they must follow their own path to gain an understanding of what we all call the divine. In that understanding we not only gain a deep understanding of self, but gain an deep understanding of the world, how things work, and even a deeper tolerance for those around us. Just thought I'd throw this out there. It's something to keep in mind, and doing a little research doesn't hurt either.

May you all be blessed

If you are so worried about the "Truth," maybe you should write the truth as well instead maligning religions you obviously do not agree with nor know much of anything about.

I have to comment on this only because I feel pity for you sir and for the generations growing up in these times. Rather than exercise your freedom of speech on such a medium as this site to promote the care and the well-being of your fellow man, you blast those who don't believe as you do. I said this when I was a Christian myself; the Jesus in the bible would not approve of Christians today. That includes people of the same mind as you sir.

Thank you so very much for this.

I cannot tell you how much it means to those of us actively involved in the fray.This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The political ideologies of The Episcopal Church/ the "liberals"/the "revisionists" are absolutely astounding at this point in time.

Hopefully, not only their apparent subversion of Holy Scripture and "the Faith once delivered", but also of foundational principals of law upon which this country was founded will be investigated by appropriate authorities and exposed for what they are.

Every rock that one turns over, something worse seems to crawl out.

Hello, Mr. Murchison. Your perspectives on freedom are truly vile. I cannot think of another word for it. America was never a nation of "god". In fact, plenty of the founding fathers were not Christian, Jewish, or Islamic, but rather deists. They carried no religion. If you want to say that they believed in a God, then yes, you are correct. However, so do pagans, so do Wiccans, and so did the ancient Greeks.

I think you need to educate yourself on not only theology, but American history. Many people came to the colonies to find religious freedom. And by the way, your Christian "god," is also called the "Judeo-Christian-Islamic God". Why? Because you share one god. So rather than blast your blog with false information and intellectual dishonesty, be happy that religion is still around.

--Alex, an atheist.

Obviously, the wiccans made a concerted effort to comment on this column. Maybe it's just that time of year.

It appears that these wiccans think their freedom of speech means freedom from criticism. Neither Murchison nor other Christians deny them the right to practice their religion - such freedom is why America was founded in the first place. But at the end of the day, either we will be right or they will - not both. Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee that the speech is right, either. These folks have a large chip on their shoulder and I hope they feel better after venting here.

Hello everyone, I applaud those who commented on this article to defend the rights of all who were wronged. This is wrong, the first amendment of the constitution does not give you freedom from criticism, however, the criticism you speak of is not justified. The criticism you speak of is derogatory and violates my freedom of religion. Fine, disagree with me, but don't come to my house and tell me that I'm wrong, and tell me that I have to change my beliefs to appease a god I have no belief of. This article is not only wrong, but an abomination to the founding principles of this nation. Blessed be all who oppose this, and keep this from becoming reality.

Jacob, no one thinks that criticism is wrong. Only the misinformation of what Wicca truly is (not a "feel good" religion. Wicca, especially Gardnerian Wicca, has a set of rules and regulations to follow) and the idea of Christians making a "comeback" as if they "had" America in the first place. He is free to disagree with what the Wiccan and Pagan community believes, that is not the objection here.

"Truth" in the sense the author uses, is not absolute. He speaks as if he knows the truth, as if Christianity is THE truth. Well, the actual truth is-no one knows. We are all stumbling in the dark, looking for answers. Each religion seeks to answer those questions, but there is no way we can really know for sure. You can tell me "The Bible says so" all day long, but the Muslims have their Koran, the Hindus have the Rigveda, etc. What makes the Bible different from these scriptures?

@Selah - I have no desire to live in the world you describe, where there is no truth and it's dark with a lot of stumbling. In the end, one answer is going to be the truth. I believe that to be the Bible, though you are free to believe something else.

@Zach - Has Bill Murchison (or any one else) come to your house to tell you that you HAVE to become a Christian? I sure didn't read that in the article.

And as for not believing in God, all I can say is you better hope you're right when you die. Because if there is a God (I believe there is) and you've spent your whole life denying Him... well, good luck with that.

@Jacob -I must add that I never claimed that my world was devoid of truth. Every religion is a path to the Divine. Each religion seeks God. My question for you is how you know that your religion is the true one? That's awfully cocky and presumptuous. God is above and beyond that which we can understand. We will never grasp who God truly is, because He, she, it, they, is/are bigger than us.

You are free to believe what you wish, but belief does not equal truth. Reality is real. Belief is in our heads. That's why it is called "faith" and not "fact".

May you be blessed,

Selah

"kenneth

"Mr. Murchison notes, quite correctly, that we pagans are indifferent to the goings-on of Christian leadership, but then goes on to infer from that that we must have some pressing agenda to overthrow Christianity. Both can't be true...."

1. Definitions have to be definitive to be i.e. definitions are definitions.

2. Truth, by definition, is exclusive i.e. yes cannot be no.

3. Christianity is a "view" based on exclusive truth claims. Christ is alleged to have the that the world will hate Christians because it hated Him first.

4. "Liberty" without limits is licentiousness.

5. Christians are, and will continue to be the enemies of this world. If we are correct, then whether non-Christians see it or not, believe it or not, HAVE TO opposed Christians and everything we stand for.

You are correct is stating that Christians should not force our beliefs on others. I would go even farther and say that we cannot.

However, we not only have the right, but the duty and obligation to follow Christ. Which ultimately means that people not of us, if we are correct, serve the adversary no matter how pleasant or concealed and so really have no freedom or will to do other than to oppose, undermine and even kill Christ and his followers.

Make no mistake. We are told to love/ exibit charity towards our enemies, but this does not change the inevitable certitude that we are and will remain enemies until the end.

I understand any need to rant and rave. Perhaps this will make the point.

Anything but Christ is the religion of the age.

PS. How does one reconcile atheism, goddesses etc...

with the historic ref. section?

I will give one example of 'freedom' taken from a real incedent.

Situation. Meeting involving persons who, with one exception, took an oath to defend the Constitution, an oath they ended with a request for aid from God.

One representative of said God has a segment called 'word of the day'.

This person may quote Gandi, Muhammad, Buddha, Lao Tsu etc.

However, the last time this person was able to speak for Christ, the person's professed boss, the one atheist in the group, invoking 'Equal Opportunity' takes offense.

No more Jesus.

"Freedom."

I wish it were an isolated incedent but hey, as long as that one 'individual' is not offended...

Happy Halloween to all of the Wiccans who have posted. Big day for you guys. For us catholics too, you know, the whole All Saints day thing.

Thank Mr. Murichson for your thoughts. I agree. People who believe in Revealed truth must huddle together, and share common ground in order to break the tide of relativism.

What does the pope know about know about the Christian message? He has a false gospel that will lead to his eternal condemnation (Galatians 1:8), unless he repents.